MAKEMYHOTD
I'm looking for a super emergency bug out tent.
Something that would allow six people to cook and use a portable propane heater within it.
Something that could handle minus 30 degrees temperatures.
We have had a number of blackouts, storms etc etc..
I need something a city boy can put up in a hurry.
Answer
I too, question why a "city boy" needs a tent in an emergency. Any exposed fabric shelter is never going to offer more protection from severe cold than the most basic solid structure, even a shack or garage. I fail to see what low temperature "emergency" would drive you and 6 friends to flee to a tent rather than to stay in place in whatever structure you live or work in.
In fact, the only non-permanent shelter that would be superior in low temperatures would be a snow cave or Inuit style igloo, where the thickness of snow would block wind and insulate. You can learn to build one but it takes several people a few hours to construct one.
I used to winter camp a lot and have slept in tents down to minus 20 dead air temperature. It's a challenge. I have a two-man double walled tent that pitches tautly with a 4" air gap between the attached non-waterproof fly -- it also has a catenary cut so that, properly pitched, it sheds wind well in storm conditions. I used it for Alpine mountaineering and we kept warm in it due to the small volume and having down sleeping bags with about 10 inches of loft. It was a fairly effective arrangement, but not one I would endure given any other options. In fact, a 2-gallon water jug inside the tent froze solid overnight, which tells you how paltry a couple layers of nylon is against sub-zero weather. Unfortunately, that tent model has not been in production for 20 some years (Cannondale Aroostook). There are other competent mountaineering tents, but they are for brute survival and none is "warm" or spacious enough for 6-way partying.
A tent large enough for 6 people doesn't efficiently retain much heat. And I would NEVER use a stove or heating unit of any type in an enclosed tent. The only winter tent arrangement that can safely use a stove for heat is a fireproofed cotton canvas outfitter's wall tent with a built in chimney and unit stove for wood or other combustibles that is designed for safe ventilation. Tentsmith in New England sells these.
http://tentsmiths.com/period-tents-wall-tents.html
But if you are just looking to survive a power outage in weather like we have this week, stay indoors. A tent is better than NO shelter but certainly inferior to any structure with a solid roof and walls. If you have to evacuate to the wilds for some reason in cold weather, take a camper trailer with a propane heater. These are dirt cheap these days since people can no longer afford to pay for the gas to haul them on vacations. We rented a self-contained motorhome for a trip to Arizona last December and there was a freak cold spell where it got down near zero one night. We were toasty warm in the camper with the propane furnace running and all the comforts of home. You can pick up a used camping trailer or motorhome in functional shape that will sleep 6 for under $3,000 these days.
A yurt is a good suggestion for wintering shelter -- my brother has an 18' traditional wood frame and wool felt Mongolian one in his yard as a guest lodge, with a vented pellet stove to warm it. But it took a professional crew an entire day to set it up and it is not really portable. Plus it cost about $10,000. There are some cool geodesic dome tents in virtually every size marketed, but they will still not keep you warm.
Overall you are better off investing in warm sleeping bags and insulated clothing. Plus do some research on safe heating options that won't suffocate or burn you and your crew.
I too, question why a "city boy" needs a tent in an emergency. Any exposed fabric shelter is never going to offer more protection from severe cold than the most basic solid structure, even a shack or garage. I fail to see what low temperature "emergency" would drive you and 6 friends to flee to a tent rather than to stay in place in whatever structure you live or work in.
In fact, the only non-permanent shelter that would be superior in low temperatures would be a snow cave or Inuit style igloo, where the thickness of snow would block wind and insulate. You can learn to build one but it takes several people a few hours to construct one.
I used to winter camp a lot and have slept in tents down to minus 20 dead air temperature. It's a challenge. I have a two-man double walled tent that pitches tautly with a 4" air gap between the attached non-waterproof fly -- it also has a catenary cut so that, properly pitched, it sheds wind well in storm conditions. I used it for Alpine mountaineering and we kept warm in it due to the small volume and having down sleeping bags with about 10 inches of loft. It was a fairly effective arrangement, but not one I would endure given any other options. In fact, a 2-gallon water jug inside the tent froze solid overnight, which tells you how paltry a couple layers of nylon is against sub-zero weather. Unfortunately, that tent model has not been in production for 20 some years (Cannondale Aroostook). There are other competent mountaineering tents, but they are for brute survival and none is "warm" or spacious enough for 6-way partying.
A tent large enough for 6 people doesn't efficiently retain much heat. And I would NEVER use a stove or heating unit of any type in an enclosed tent. The only winter tent arrangement that can safely use a stove for heat is a fireproofed cotton canvas outfitter's wall tent with a built in chimney and unit stove for wood or other combustibles that is designed for safe ventilation. Tentsmith in New England sells these.
http://tentsmiths.com/period-tents-wall-tents.html
But if you are just looking to survive a power outage in weather like we have this week, stay indoors. A tent is better than NO shelter but certainly inferior to any structure with a solid roof and walls. If you have to evacuate to the wilds for some reason in cold weather, take a camper trailer with a propane heater. These are dirt cheap these days since people can no longer afford to pay for the gas to haul them on vacations. We rented a self-contained motorhome for a trip to Arizona last December and there was a freak cold spell where it got down near zero one night. We were toasty warm in the camper with the propane furnace running and all the comforts of home. You can pick up a used camping trailer or motorhome in functional shape that will sleep 6 for under $3,000 these days.
A yurt is a good suggestion for wintering shelter -- my brother has an 18' traditional wood frame and wool felt Mongolian one in his yard as a guest lodge, with a vented pellet stove to warm it. But it took a professional crew an entire day to set it up and it is not really portable. Plus it cost about $10,000. There are some cool geodesic dome tents in virtually every size marketed, but they will still not keep you warm.
Overall you are better off investing in warm sleeping bags and insulated clothing. Plus do some research on safe heating options that won't suffocate or burn you and your crew.
Camping Supply store?
kristin22
Could someone please list a bunch of stores that sell camping equipment and supplied, OTHER than junky wal-mart. Thanks.
Answer
I'm a stickler for never buying gear without actually seeing the stuff. I'll take my chances ordering online for things like cook kits, tent stakes, food..etc. When it comes down to sleeping bags, tents, packs, etc. I always hit a real store:
REI has the highest distribution of stores. No, one isn't in every mall, but there is one almost within a few hours drive for just about everyone.
EMS is Northeast USA only. It sucks they closed their western stores.
Local chains are also good sources. Hudson Trail Outfitters (DC/MD area); Ramsey Outdoors (NJ); The Great Outdoors (New England)
Independent Stores are also a great way to go: The Moutaineer in Keene NY, Mudd N' Flood in Taos; Cadillac Mountain Sports in Bar Harbor and Ellsworth ME, Teton Mountaineering in Jackson Hole; Outdoor Gear Exchange in Burlington VT....best consult your local phone book, but a lot of these places are online too.
I use places like Campmor, Sierra Trading Post, and the online stores to buy consumables and things I want extra of. For example, I know I like EMS Techwick shirts, so I buy them online instead of driving an hour to an EMS.
Cabelas, Dick's, Bass Pro Shops, and Gander Mountain are good for hunting and fishing supplies. Bass and Cabela's actually train their staff, so if you are looking for camping gear, boots, etc they will give you good info. I was in a Cabela's in April and they had some sweet Petzl headlamps, JetBoil stoves (I sold three of them while I was there...to other customers) and a nice selection of Thermarest products. Gander Mountain staff seem to know three things: Guns, Cotton sweatshirts with silkscreened pictures of deer, and when to take a cigarette break. Dick's is a bunch of...well, the name says it all. Most clerks at Dicks know about as much about camping as the clerks at Wal-Mart.
Now...don't rule the Wal-Mart, Target, and K-mart out completely. They all sell bottles of propane fuel and white gas by the gallon cheaper than any other specialty store. Target actually has a nice selection of Leatherman and Gerber tools, and (unless you are backpacking) all three stores are good places to stock up on food and beer (unless you have blue laws.)
I'm a stickler for never buying gear without actually seeing the stuff. I'll take my chances ordering online for things like cook kits, tent stakes, food..etc. When it comes down to sleeping bags, tents, packs, etc. I always hit a real store:
REI has the highest distribution of stores. No, one isn't in every mall, but there is one almost within a few hours drive for just about everyone.
EMS is Northeast USA only. It sucks they closed their western stores.
Local chains are also good sources. Hudson Trail Outfitters (DC/MD area); Ramsey Outdoors (NJ); The Great Outdoors (New England)
Independent Stores are also a great way to go: The Moutaineer in Keene NY, Mudd N' Flood in Taos; Cadillac Mountain Sports in Bar Harbor and Ellsworth ME, Teton Mountaineering in Jackson Hole; Outdoor Gear Exchange in Burlington VT....best consult your local phone book, but a lot of these places are online too.
I use places like Campmor, Sierra Trading Post, and the online stores to buy consumables and things I want extra of. For example, I know I like EMS Techwick shirts, so I buy them online instead of driving an hour to an EMS.
Cabelas, Dick's, Bass Pro Shops, and Gander Mountain are good for hunting and fishing supplies. Bass and Cabela's actually train their staff, so if you are looking for camping gear, boots, etc they will give you good info. I was in a Cabela's in April and they had some sweet Petzl headlamps, JetBoil stoves (I sold three of them while I was there...to other customers) and a nice selection of Thermarest products. Gander Mountain staff seem to know three things: Guns, Cotton sweatshirts with silkscreened pictures of deer, and when to take a cigarette break. Dick's is a bunch of...well, the name says it all. Most clerks at Dicks know about as much about camping as the clerks at Wal-Mart.
Now...don't rule the Wal-Mart, Target, and K-mart out completely. They all sell bottles of propane fuel and white gas by the gallon cheaper than any other specialty store. Target actually has a nice selection of Leatherman and Gerber tools, and (unless you are backpacking) all three stores are good places to stock up on food and beer (unless you have blue laws.)
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Title Post: BEST BELOW ZERO SURVIVALIST TENT??
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